In his weekly dose of commentary on local, regional and international politics, United Independent Movement (UIM) President Neil de Beer analyses the Freedom Front Plus move to shun the Democratic Alliance (DA) in favour of the African National Congress (ANC) in Oudtshoorn. He describes the FF+’s Corné Mulder as “a very astute politician” and says his party – with its new partnership with the ANC – is positioning itself as an “alternative for future government”. He also has praise for Police Minister Senzo Mchunu who is “calm, cool, and very structured and collected”. As for the latest raid on a firearm training facility, he says there is no law that stops South Africans from being trained to protect themselves against criminals who are using “weapons of war”. Another Minister who gets his approval is Home Affairs’ Leon Schreiber who “actually understands” law and order. On the international front, De Beer looks at how the conflict in the Middle East has spilled over into Europe and the UK “where they have had the most brutal uprisings” – and warns: “And this is making the people across the world go, if this thing kicks off, this is going to be World War III.”
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Extended transcript of the interview ___STEADY_PAYWALL___
Chris Steyn (00:02.098)
It’s another eventful week in local, regional and international politics. Let’s get our Sunday dose of comment and insight from Neil de Beer, the President of United Independent Movement. Welcome, Neil.
Neil de Beer (00:17.792)
Morning. Oppie Bokke, Springboks hooray, congratulations, Mia le Roux, Miss South Africa, and a couple of more medals at the Olympics. So yeah, I think on all fronts we ended up a week quite well.
Chris Steyn (00:35.485)
Well, Neil, if you don’t mind, I’d like to start our interview this week by asking you, how are you and Helen?
Neil de Beer (00:43.448)
Sneaky. I think we are well. I didn’t get a WhatsApp as usual. Lot of comments though, and I see the comments these days on my interviews are growing, and people have now found my email address. And for that, 137 emails this week of suggestions, a couple of info hints, a couple of people squealing and telling me what things are. To them, I’d like to say thank you.
Neil de Beer (01:12.418)
This programme has given me a platform to summarise and Chris, it’s always a privilege to be here. People are saying, When am I joining the DA? When am I getting married to Zille? How can I say she’s not a racist? I can say what the hell I want to. But there’s one thing I won’t do and that is lie. It’s my perception. It’s my view. And I think that’s why we are here is just to tell the hard-lock truth. I will always be critical where people abuse power.
Neil de Beer (01:39.444)
I told you that in my stance she is whom she is, but if I’m being forced with a gun to the head or a spotlight to the face, no, I’m not going to tell untruths about her and I’ll wind up by saying I’ll always be open for a scone and a cup of tea with Godzilla.
Chris Steyn (01:58.158)
Well, let’s look at the bed-hopping that has been taking place in coalition politics this week with Helen believing or being told by various sources that the Freedom Front and the African National Congress are in talks to oust the Democratic Alliance for municipalities in the Western Cape.
Neil de Beer (02:18.68)
Yeah, two doctors going at it. Doctor, doctor. Doctor Mulder, Doctor Burke. And may I say, don’t know Doctor Burke from a bar of soap, but definitely know Doctor Corné Mulder. It was very un-Doctor Mulder, the interview that I saw, because I know him quite well. I have sat with him, I have spoken with him, and obviously in the Multi-Party Charter, I have dealt with him.
He is most probably the longest serving member of Parliament in this country and a very astute politician. I see him rarely lose his temper. I see that Statesman very rarely not become un-calm, if that’s a word. I saw it here. I think what you saw in that interview was that the Freedom Front, don’t forget, Plus, Plus, is getting up and now saying, no, no, nay, nay. The continued rhetoric that was even spewed at the Multi-Party charty level where we all sat and also got gatvol of it, I can say, was the fact of the Big Brother Syndrome, maybe in this case the Big Sister Syndrome, of continually – hint, hint – saying, but we’re the biggest, we’re the largest, we are the largest opposition. You are the minority, small, small, small.
You can do that if in actual fact, de facto, you are. But at this current moment, even after the ANC took a massive tornado battering, they are still the largest party in South Africa. And the DA is still and was the official opposition. The Freedom Front Plus, make no mistake, also took a battering, but they are still regarded as a larger entity within the opposition political sphere. Now that they’ve joined the canoe, all of them are sitting there. They are getting into what I told you, Chris, entering the waves with a ski boat is possible, but the first five waves are going to rock the boat. You’re then going to go into a lull until the next come. So I think we’re in a lull now. Everybody’s sitting and saying hooray.
Neil de Beer (04:40.98)
Every minister is doing what they should do, but now inter-politics is at play. The Freedom Front Plus is getting up and saying, no, in Oudtshoorn you did this, so we are going to do that. And that had a ramification of suddenly Dr. Mulder, who’s leading the Freedom Front Plus in this provinsie, in this province, getting up and saying, you’re not going to have the title of the perfect governance within province and municipalities anymore. We are going to show you in Oudtshoorn that with our new partnership of the ANC, we are going to be the alternative for future government. That’s caused a major rift. That’s made not just Oudtshoorn collapse, but places like Langeberg and the rest of the places where they are in so called coalitions, Chris, ruptions are coming. And I think the Freedom Front Plus is going to exercise their freedom.
Chris Steyn (05:37.203)
Neil, let me take you to another raid of a training facility, this time not a secret military training camp, apparently, but an unauthorized firearms training facility linked to the Right Wing. What have you heard?
Neil de Beer (05:52.886)
Yeah, Modimolle or Nylstroom. I think Chris, what has happened is that we now have what they call a shark frenzy. There’s blood in the water and now every place where there’s a hint, where there’s a structure, where there’s gunfire and where there’s seemingly camouflage is now being sought after as a undercover pseudo military camp. Now I want to make it clear. Utter rubbish. Nonsense.
The fact that they have now admitted, even the controlling entity…You interviewed, the CEO of PSiRA, who by the way is the governing body of security and security apparatus training in this country. They now are going and saying, seemingly, that if you are just told that there’s a tent, a camouflage, a gun and a target, it’s our military training camp. Well, I disagree. This country has been in the fold of specialised security training since I was born. You will also recognise that when it’s seemingly TRT, the Hawks NDCIP that hit this place in Modimolle, when they arrived there, they could not find one illegal firearm. Hence, no arrests were made. And now they are trying to understand how did the firearms get there. That’s the charge now.
Neil de Beer (07:23.124)
Not training, not illegal training, but Chris, we are stepping now into something where I call it murky waters.
Chris Steyn (07:31.986)
I think it’s about the issue now is firearms having been moved from KZN to there. Is that, is that correct Neil?
Neil de Beer (07:40.024)
That is the correct, but now we’re really hunting down. I think, Chris, we’ve got to start understanding, and if you’re not there, I’m going to spell it out into a segment, which will run, I think, today under a thing called the Foreign Military Assistance Act 15 of 1998. I’d like to touch on that.
Neil de Beer (08:06.328)
So, Chris, it comes. We had, since inception, since the early 60s, military training in this country for every single white adult, male, and certain females. We then had a sporadic new dispensation, I’m telling you out of experience, where the majority of adult males in this country were military trained.
In 1994, when the flag went up and the other one down, these people didn’t disappea, Chris. Hulle het nie net weg geraak nie. They didn’t just go into life. They are still people that served in a wartime period. Many people found themselves out of job, out of sequence, out of future. And what happened – and you can argue with me – is when you say in Afrikaans, skoenmaker hou jou by jou lese. In other words, if you are trained to do something, keep with it. So what happened was we turned into mercenaries. We didn’t turn into mercenaries. What happens if you are trained and you want to go practice such training and you get paid for it? That’s what happened. People were drawn into foreign military zones like Iraq, like Afghanistan, to go perform what they were trained for by the previous government, who now got disillusioned and formed a new government. And in 1998, they brought out a law. And that law stops any South African to go overseas and perform military duties in a foreign country. It’s a law. But it doesn’t stop the training. It doesn’t stop who you were. You don’t just cut it off. I’m one of them. So a lot of people that went overseas that wanted to practice what they preach, were now found to be terrorists, were now found to be against the law. Now that’s a good and a bad thing, but, Chris, I want to come back and tell you, the focus today in this country is not that Foreign Military act. People must start understanding that our country is at war, Chris. We are in an undeclared domestic war. I make it clear, our farm attacks are not being done with ketties and sjamboks.
Neil de Beer (10:30.754)
They are being done with automatic rifles. Cash-in-transit are not done with 9mm. They are being done with AK-47s. Housebreaking, murder, assault. They are using weapons of war, Chris. Now, where do we, Citizen X, where do we get training to protect ourselves against this. So it’s only clear that the people are focusing on the possible military response, the military aid, the military tactic, the training of mercenaries, overthrowing of government, etc. Put that aside. There could be, and I think there are, but this is not the point that I’m getting annoyed. I’m getting annoyed because Citizen X, the farmer, Joe Soap, the person that needs to be protected, where do I go and go to a firing range to protect myself against weapons of war? And I think PSiRA needs to readjust.
Neil de Beer (11:26.24)
PSiRA need to get through this massive blood in the water scenario about military camps and aid and I’ll end off this charade because I am annoyed, Chris, because we are starting now to impeach on the legality and the people that are legal. PSiRA needs to step up and regulate and secondly the focus is not foreign. Chris, the law says we may not train foreigners into tactics of military warfare but there’s no law that stops South Africans, domesticated people in this country, us as natives, to be trained to protect ourselves. And whilst the police and the defence force need to revive themselves, and I hope they do, until then we will need to be trained to protect our sons, our daughters, our wives and ourselves.
Chris Steyn (12:15.827)
But, Neil, don’t you feel that there has been a revival in the police force since the last Minister of Police bid us goodbye? Was he not an active obstacle to the fight against crime? It certainly seems so with everything that has been happening since the new Minister of Police has taken up his portfolio.
Neil de Beer (12:37.91)
It doesn’t seem so, it is. I mean, I am one of the people that said that Bheki Tafeltjie Stoeltjie Cele must go. Chris, I’ll tell you what happened to him. He was a disgraced Police Commissioner who took away the civilian rank because you remember the police force went to the policing service. Generals became commissioners and he didn’t like that because he wanted the title General. It’s rumoured he changed the ranks back to a military rank structure from service to force so that he could be called General Cele. And what happened to him was when he was told that he’s incompetent, that he couldn’t be there anymore. You remember there was that matter. When he became the Minister of Police, I think Chris, he couldn’t give up the title General. He wanted to be at every crime scene, every photo op, every parade and still don the attitude of a general, which he never got the training for by a Police College in the first place.
Now, I made a mistake where I kind of generalised and said, if you want to be effective in the police, get a person that was in the police to be the minister. If you want to have a great Defense Force, get a person that marched the parade and was in combat, etc, etc. But seemingly, now that the other one is gone, the new minister, Minister Mchunu, I think has a different style because he has a different attitude. He has a different way. And the rumour about him is that he is calm, cool, and very structured and collected.
Neil de Beer (14:35.316)
Now, I saw this, funny enough, at the parade in the preparation of the opening of Parliament, where normally the Minister of Police appears at Cape Town Castle’s inner square where all the police officers that are going to do the protection comes together and the Minister does a talk. The previous man screamed at them, boasted at them. This year, this new Minister came up and said, do your work, do it well and be proud of whom you are in that tone. It’s a different attitude. And no doubt, there are more raids, there’s more focus, there’s more understanding, there’s more action.
But the failure now is not the police seemingly building up the crescendo or fixing stuff. It is the internal failures. Two things this week, very bad. More than 80,000 dockets of murder shut since 2018 closed, as I understand, on a question in Parliament. And currently, when we had that incident in Khayelitsha in Cape Town where the people fired at the police, where several suspects were murdered and shot, and some people saying but it’s murder, people saying it’s in defense. I agree. When you pick up a gun, you shoot a police officer, you’re going to get fired back. But here’s the thing. The people that were arrested and survived were not charged. They were brought to court and, shockingly, they were actually told that their case will be struck from court because we delayed, apparently, to reach the 48-hour to let them appear in court. Shocking that now the justice system is now not supporting this new, revived scenario. And I hope it gets ixed.
Chris Steyn (16:20.243)
Yes, Ian Cameron, the Chair of the Police Portfolio Committee was the former Police Minister’s biggest critic, but he believes the new Minister is a doer. So he certainly has faith in him,
Neil de Beer (16:34.604)
I think we must have faith. I think if there’s anything this country currently needs its faith, its faith in the new rejuvenation, although I’m very worried about the Department of Defense and I’m going to interact, but it seems there’s a new whisper with Ian there, not saying that that is why, but with Ian as chair, Minister Mchunu being there, and the attitude is changing, but we have to get justice right now. It doesn’t help that you arrest, but on Tuesday they’re out again. This is a vicious circle. So let’s fix that.
That and Oom Pieter. Let me quickly tell you, Oom Pieter Groenwald, I met him, got scolded by him one day and it felt like I’m in front of my uncle when he came to me and he said to me, da da da da da da da da, and I looked at him and I immediately went Jammer. Now if I, who don’t fear much, stood in front of Oom Pieter and apologised, fear those that are currently in jail. So it seems police, it’s coming right. Prisons, it’s definitely coming right. It’s just justice.
Chris Steyn (17:34.773)
And prisons, absolutely. Yeah, no, I think he’s put the fear of God into prisoners. They are suddenly in prison and not in a holiday camp. Anyway, Neil, I just want to regress a little bit back to KZN, where former President Jacob Zuma’s party MK seems to be in some state of instability. Who is running the show there? And is there a revolt?
Neil de Beer (18:05.496)
I think it’s the daughter. I think this is it. I think let us not mince words. To Duduzule is running the show. And Duduzile, what she says goes. So I think we’ve got a party that got more than what they thought they would. I was there. I was at the National Counting Centre. MK was sitting right there because we all got desks at the election. And they got one million. Wow. One and a half million. Whoa. And then when it went over 1.5, let me tell you, Chris, the face there, because she was sitting there, they were shocked. Rottweiler caught the bakkie. Now what the hell are they going to do with the bakkie? So, you’ve got a problem now that MK received an overwhelming, unexpected support. Their structures were not ready. They can say what they want. They weren’t ready, they were not prepared, and they are staggering at this moment to get their scenario sorted. Whilst that’s going on, you also have to understand that the Zuma family runs this. It’s theirs. And now what you’ve had is them rushing to get the right people in seats, finding out that some of them are not loyal. They remove them, and that’s why we had the mass change again of parliamentarians. This is not going to stop. I think they need to settle. They are going to settle. They’re going to get help.
Neil de Beer (19:32.664)
They have now cohorted with the EFF, the Revolutionary Tzars, and now you’ve got to understand, I’ll still stick to it. They’re trying to get themselves organised because their massive first battle in the trenches will be 2026 to go into every municipality and that will just be doom and gloom. But, yeah, I think she’s blowing it, she’s doing it, she’s screaming it, she’s directing it. So I fear if that is not going to mutate into a proper party, they will be in disarray and that will continue.
Chris Steyn (20:06.441)
To leave South Africa, briefly Neil, Israel is going after Hamas and Hezbollah terror leaders in Sword-of-Gideon style. What are the bigger ramifications?
Neil de Beer (20:23.042)
Well, the bigger ramifications is now even being felt in the UK. I’ve got the sense this is a lifetime war. I’ve got the sense that no matter how much we do, even Russia, Ukraine, where there’s escalations now, Ukraine going for it. Syria has always been on the go. You know, the matters in Africa, you’ve got there and go. But one thing we know is that the Palestine-Israel conflict which the majority of people who are not involved don’t want to get involved, are now going to get involved. We had a flash of it in this country prior to the elections, where this Middle Eastern conflict between Israel and Palestine actually had a major eruption of that volcano. What’s happening though is now it is not just Israel-Palestine involved. It is Hamas, it is Hezbollah, it is Iran. It is the factionalism that are spreading out. And now in all, may I call it normal countries where the matters of religion were not in conflict…You can see it. You can see it in France. You can see it in Europe. And it’s spilling over in the UK of all places where they have had the most brutal uprisings. Conflict in the street. People dying. Assets lost. And suddenly Keir Starmer, the new Prime Minister that had to bring in this new wave of a stable UK is now having to contend with a national revolution. And this is making the people across the world go, if this thing kicks off, this is going to be World War III, the mother of all wars. And we pray, no matter what God you pray to, that the people like you and I that are sensible that want to just get on with life, they call us the middle ground, that we will bring a little bit of peace and understanding. I fear, though, Chris, the end is not near in that conflict.
Chris Steyn (22:32.819)
Well, Neil, anti immigrant sentiment in that country and other European countries is growing. And the same thing is happening here in South Africa. X is trending. Home Affairs, immigration, immigrants, xenophobia.
Neil de Beer (22:51.298)
Chris, you know, I must tell you a strange thing two weeks ago. A gentleman from Johannesburg, a Nigerian, called himself a Nigerian, got hold of my telephone number, and said to me, why am I making videos saying that they, the people from across the border should be chucked out? And I said, no, I didn’t say that. I said, you should be forcibly, if necessary, removed. You should be arrested, incarcerated, and deported. So he was very shocked and I said, but hear me well, hear me. It’s not because whom you are.
You see, Chris, when we started giving immigration in this country a nationality, a race, we were doomed. I want to make it categorically clear my statement in public and today. I don’t care whom you are. Nigerian, Mozambican, Chinese, Czechoslovakian, Angolan or Zimbabwean. I don’t care what your passport say you are. I care what it says in your passport. Am I clear? I don’t care where you come from. But if you come from any country beyond the beautiful border of our country, the Republic of South Africa, and you do not have an official stamp in your passport that says you are legal here, you must go. Then you are illegal.
Now, Chris, this is called law and order. But now that we make it a nationality, we make it a person, we make it a country, we’ve lost that battle. And I think I have understood when having a discussion with Leon Schreiber, knowing who he is, Leon is a person I can tell you again dealt with him, again met him and worked with him.
Neil de Beer (24:58.954)
He is a man that actually understands what the law is and order. I know him. So I think his job and he’s trying to do the best of it and may I tell you, he’s winning. Another win, another change. He’s killing backlogs. Now they say because he’s white. Ag wat nonsens, utter rubbish. I saw the post. Yeah, it was because he’s white. No, it’s because he’s diligent. I’ve met white and black diligent people. So stop that rubbish. If you are a person that gets off your ass, does your daily work to get your daily bread so that you can look after your daily family, don’t make it a bloody race thing. Ons is gatvol!
So, yeah, there I go again. Poof! If you are in this country illegal, you should be taken out of this country. And if you come back and stand in a queue like I do when I want to go to the Schengen countries where, you know, they ask you everything except a blood sample and bit of urine DNA.
Neil de Beer (25:57.802)
Then why, when we as a country that want to enforce law and order, when we do it, we xenophobic, un-African, un-brotherly, absoluut gemors, rubbish, nonsense, get out or stay and get a chop. And if you do that, you are welcome. I think we are a very friendly country, but we’ve got to start becoming righteous. We’ve got to start taking the bull by the horn, bring justice back – and live in peace.
Neil de Beer (26:27.126)
And if we can do that, Biltong, Braai, Chisenyama, Knoosh. Amen.
Chris Steyn (26:35.222)
Thank you. That was Neil De. Beer, the President of the United Independent Movement, giving BizNews viewers his weekly dose of comments on local, regional, and international politics. And I am Chris Steyn. Thank you, Neil.
Neil de Beer (26:51.8)
Thanks, Chris
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